Thursday, September 24, 2009

Re: [issuesonline_worldwide] Re: HumaneRightsAgenda SIKH LEAGUE ON VANDE MATARAMTuesday, 5 September, 2006 1:01 AM

yes it is correct that the india do not have muslims,sikhs, christians ,buddists jains and other minority groups be cause india is one and all the people are one and alone with voice and spirit ..ok then
u start avoiding daliths because they are out caste people .they have to serve only like a service categoried poeple
vaishays who have to do a provisional business in small towns of india becos they do not have enough knowledge
then kshatriya who have the muscles only despite the brain and they have to engage wars and killings of other people in the society
then muslims who should not have any right and voice because they have their contry pakistan .they have to go
then sikhs who are the part of hinduism that can kill them and call them into its fold because they are well enough in this contry and do not feel any need to ask
buddists who have driven away by the pushya mithra ,the king of the time of buddism
jainism that has no signs but they would never ask anything .
THEN ONLY BRAHMINS who have the mind and virtue to award the duties and works as per the knowledge they assingned by the lord indra first to whom they have already manages with soma drinks and all rituals .and all such lords are their creation who have been looking for the rituals of the brahmins in india and they have the all powers entrusted by the hindu god and 3crore gods .all the gods have been created by them only so they have only power to rule this contry irtrespective of all castes for which they eshtablish a syndicate from all castes from each selections and castes
then within the circle of brahmans they start the rich selections for the rich by keeping all sections of hinduism and other minorities under the feet through the power of administration which have been filled with such yes boss type mind sets .then they say the dharma is running on its 4 feet .and india is shining ,india in 22 nd century .india is super power
india which is the paradise ,india is the mother of all cultures in the world ,india is the source of world knowledge ,india have found the f16 planes 5000 years back .india have built the bridge between srilanks and india long back .
then we should say yess u r correct .BOSS .INDIA IS GREAT .
THEN WE SHOULD SAY BRAHMINS ARE INDIA AND INDIAN BRAHMANS ARE VERY GREAT AND TOUGHT THE LESSONS TO SUMERIANS .EGYPTIANS,GREEKS ,AFRICANS .
THIS is the way only what they want us to say ok ?




sanjeev kulkarni wrote:

If these Sikhs have any decency, they should first
drop words "Sikh League*, the religio-political front"
from the name of their organisation. And then give
lecture about articles of constitution etc. It is
ridiculous to see religious organisations talking
about secularism. No wonder they are joining hands
with 'secular' Muslims to adhere to Sharia law. Long
live Indian secularism !!!

Sanjeev

[tdf-discuss] Congress, bjp, left all in one game on telangana state in Andhra pradeshMonday, 11 September, 2006 2:31 PM

Congress, bjp, left all in one game on telangana state in Andhra pradesh

Sri chandra shekhar rao who came out from the telugu desham party with the voice of separate state of telangana in accordance of the aspirations of the telangana people who are dreaming for the separate state from united Andhra pradesh to rule on their own since last 50 years and won the elections in Andhra pradesh with the alliance of the congress with a hope to get the state as the promise made by the congress high command while in assembly elections.

After passing of the two years the congress party is passing the time without any constructive work towards the formation of telangana state by appointing the sub committee with some central leaders who are not sure of the support of the congress party for their report and they have no time to complete their report.

Chandra shekhar rao lastly submitted his resignation to the cabinet ministry in protest against the attitude of the congress party for sticking to his promises to the people of telangana they they are for the people of telangana only but not for the posts and ministries. telangana people have once again hopeful on chandra shekhar rao..

Congress chief sonia Gandhi is rested the total issue on the shoulders of the chief minister of Andhra pradesh ,y.s.rajashekhar reddy who is very cruel towards separate telangana state.

Both cpi and cpm are since beginning they are opposing the telangana state due to having their own restrictions and compulsions. May be one of the reasons that they have the history of armed struggle they waged against the nizam nawab and the base of the cadres in telangana .at last they hinted that they are not the key players in the telangana issue as they opposed all such moves while formations of uttaranchal ,chattis garh and other small states. If the congress is committed to the formation of another state that have the chance with the similar way the congress adopted.

Bjp has made its manifesto for smaller states in India already and made some measurers to catch the telangana leaders into their fold to destabilize the upa government by forwarding a proposal to support the telangana bill in parliament.

With the support of all parties which have already promised to support the telangana bill in parliament sri chandra shekhar rao should propose a private bill in the parliament to see the practicality of the congress,bjp, comuunist parties ,and other supporting parties in parliament immediately without any further delay in the interest of the telangana people as it the dream of the people who lost everything in the hands of the silent invaders of Andhra people
Ayub mohammed
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/political_ analysts/ join

[political_analysts] Representation to the B.C Commission for 15% Muslim reservation in A.P IndiaThursday, 10 February, 2005 11:53 AM

To

The Chairman
B.C Commission
Hyderabad

Respected Sir,

Sub: Representation in support of the State
Government's stand in
bringing "appropriate legislation" for
fulfilling the commitment of
Muslim Reservation in AP formally due to the
nominal percentage of
5% with comparative case of Kerala where 12%
is in force
submission regarding.

We regrettably invite your kind attention on the "Problem" of Muslim
reservations in our State where our beloved Chief Minister, Y.S
Rajashekhar Reddy, in the way of fulfilling the poll promises, made
to the Muslim Community in the State, issued a G.O. 33 for inclusion
into the backward caste list, by reserving 5% only, after the lapse
of the 55 years from the period of the freedom movement. when the
Indian National congress made the promises to Minorities with some
safe guards, including all those who were called minorities, more
particularly Muslims in the draft constitution (1947-49), which are
followed:

"
a) Number of seats in the national parliament and state
Assemblies to be
reserved for minorities on the basis of their population,
though elections to be
held under joint electorate.

b) Share of minorities in the cabinet to be ensured through
provision of a
schedule.

c) Special Officers for minorities in the Union and State for
monitoring
implementation of safe guards.

d) The claim of minorities in public services to be given due
consideration.

e) Minority right to preserve their distinct language script,
and culture and
establishing educational institution of their choice
granted."

All above were with variety of reasons, compulsions, conspiracies,
and keeping the history of 700 years of Muslim dynasties in the
country, social status of some Muslim Nawabs, Mullahs, and so called
Muslim leaders, most of all safe guards were dropped except some mere
provisions in Draft constitution through the articles 292, 294, 296,
299 and the advisory committee, constituent assembly and framers from
behind the same, succeeded in winning the confidence of Muslims on
the name of Minorities, on the ground of the Majority and Minority
relations by ensuring the minorities by the Majority in the future
course of the own rule in own country. Now the situation of Indian
Muslims can be understood from the following cases:

1. Jabalpur communal riots, in 1961, where hundreds of Muslim
girls were raped
only on the cause of 'Love' of Muslim boy with Hindu
girl, within the period of
11 years, only from the declaration of the Indian
Constitution.

2. In Ahmedabad communal riots, near about 3000 lives were
lost, only due to
lack of direction to police in dealing the rioters from
the cabinet minister, who
was under the fear of loosing coming elections to
opposition party, Jana
Sangh, as per the inquiry report of Sri. Ajeet
Bhattachargee.

3. In 1978, in Aligarh, the U.P.PAC, targeted the Muslims,
and shot them on the
name of control of rioters.





4. In 1970's riots, in Jalgaon, Bhivandi and Mahad, some
innocent Muslims were
arrested by the town police station where they went to
take shelter, according
to Justice D.P. Madon's Commission Report.


These are the only to present the cases of Muslims in our country
which has experienced more than 21,000 communal riots and cases from
the point of the spark of the communal incident to completion of
relief camps, covering from the entrance of police to killings,
arrests and registering of the cases, beside the criminal acts of the
Hindu mobs from robbing, burning them to the compensation to the
victims proved how the constitutional missionary engaged in dealing
with the Muslims and their rights, for considering 15% Muslim
reservation in educational, political, social, judicial, and
executive fields of the state, as the cases of communal riots in
Hyderabad also not exemption for all such lapses from society to the
role of the government and its all branches, not for enjoyment of
high level status, 3 times food, luxurious lives of four wheelers,
buildings, and high level status which were all such proved useless
and reduced to ashes in Gujarathi styled communal riots engineered by
the Narendra Modi government, but for safe guarding the guaranteed
some nominal rights including "Right to live" in the Indian
Constitution in its new form towards the establishment of strong base
in society, state and civilization in all fields as per the promise
of the Indian National Congress in the draft Constitution in 1947 -
1949, as we are keeping submissions to all changing prime ministers,
presidents, chief ministers in our country since last 8 years.

Re: Fwd: Re: the rss blamed the muslims in gandhi assasination on 30th january1948Monday, 31 July, 2006 3:10 PM

Well i was out of station in bread winning game here so could not reply u in time .i did not claim myself as a true representative of the muslim community in India .i may be good or bad in muslim community that is not my option to be decided by the own community people and the society of the Indian fabric.but I prefer to be good human in India and the world as a world perspective way of thinking and understanding the world as well unlike the cover and mechanical knowledge without going into the origin and root causes of all related and relative issues of the human world and polity of India where the principal player of influential factors are made us to discuss here out of proportions of the needy issues and the things .here the name of mine could be the first issue to understand me as a muslim despite the subject with clarity under specified and approved points of the world including in India.
I personally do not like to suggest anything to do in your life and in your social life and social out look. I definitely say u that u need the approach of understanding the world issues including all humans with whom u have good and bad relations generally and others who u know only through the net particularly.
Moreover I do hope to keep this much of relation in future for better understanding each for any other more acceptable task in future.
Ayyub mohammed

kalyan panda wrote:
OK. I do not want to argue with you anymore. You are also biased and dogmatic. I do not think you are a true representative of the Muslims in India. The basic problems with intellectuals are to make others confused and make things unneccessarily complicated. The conditions of Muslims, differenciating with other countries, is not my brain child but narrated by many Muslims to me personally. I am personally in touch regularly with 3 of my friends whose sister/niece/phua are in Pakistan. Yesterday only 'Yezdi" told me after his wife came back from Pakistan about a fortnight before. I do not want to discuss about the conditions in PoK, where already a struggle has started. I know it's futile to debate as you do not try to find any positive points. I agree all of has the right to speak - what one feels. You will say Golwalkar whom I or none of my friends has ever heard. Only after coming to Mumbai at the age of 25, during 1981, I heard. I think if you go to West Bengal/Orrissa/Bihar/UP jharkhand or Uttaranchal - a very few would be able to say that they have heard of him. Leave south India apart. Now this fits to you own ego of explanation. You might be proud of your superfluous logic but I also as a Hindu know my/our feelings and thinking and can express freely. As a minority you do not have that exclusive domain (don't mind, it's not hate but factual expressions) to express you logic for Hindus. You are actually spoon feeding poision and serving the Bad radical Hindus whom we are also fighting within. You are blaming the entire majority community. How you feel when terrorism is linked with Islam? So my dear, please speak n debate every thing but try to reach a common understandable platform. You used the word 'dumb'. "One who knows not and knows not, he knows not, he is a fool pity him" - great saying.
About Israel you spoke the expected line of thinking. Like it is for Kashmir, entirely dependent on political-religious nexus. I don't mind a federal India. I don't mind proportional representation of the minorities even though Pakistan is seperated out of India on that prpose and issue - may be by way of presidential nominations like christian members are chosen. I even wish 25-30% of all communities be women. We must fist reach to the amicable and agreeable issues first and tackle the complicated ones later.
I think the process had started during Aurangzeb. And started complicating during sepoy mutiny by the British. Devide n rule was bare.
regards
panda


ayub mohd wrote:
I do not know what u know and what u do not like to know but the thing is that the issue as a center of discussion here have the origin in the 1920s where the principal manipulator of the Hinduism and its philosophy in the form of political lines through the bunch of thoughts written by guru golwalker against the muslims who invaded the India and its culture in the retaliatory attitude.since then that all like the pupils of that philosophy from street leader to the prime minister who says to get all the muslims under the uniform civil code after the long time of conspired silence during the freedom movement and drafting of the Indian constitution and its practically adoptable policies of indira,Nehru,Gandhi and vajapay,in amending the Indian constitution .
The conditions of other minorities in other muslims contries are the result and practices of the country only but no way it is concerned with the rulers of other contries .
Rulers in any country are regarded as the parent like look over the children where the muslims also have the definite relations with the parents under the roof of single family .the duty of the rulers in true sense should be in the way of DHARMA .no one should be discriminated among equal citizenry in any country including India .
Whether conditions of the muslims in India are good,? Or worse is not a question of those who sees them as an outsiders of the whole ambit of oneness on cultural aspect but only should be decided by themselves only .discrimination in execution of the policies promulgated as the role model of the country means committing 2 errors in the eye of rule of law and the dharma as a soul and spirit of the stream of the faith upon which the political structure is depended .in India where was the issue of change in attitude of muslims took into the fundamental form could not be a result direct for any benefit of the individuals or the whole of the muslims society against the hindu mind set had been started to change its form after the failure of the soviet block of the influential socialist thought when the cultural policing forces were not able to voice against the movements of the ruling methodology of the past governments in general and muslims in perticuler
It is the mejoritarian policing source found itself the best way to reach the task of capturing the political power through the muslim killings directly on the name of communal tensions in India .the reaction and retaliatory repulse of the muslims might be in the form of terrorist acts of bombing the power centers in certain parts and the capitol of the country including the financial capitol of the country has to be seen only from the lens of attackers and the fundamental attitudes against the muslims for the power only where as the muslims does not have any such goal of seeking the power
The change of liberal hindus to the fundamental for is the direct action plan of the manipulators of the philosophy of the hard core hinduist forces who wants to turn the ordinary civilians as the hindu military force against the muslims in India as it was proved in germany during the Hitler time that it is a day dream.
Muslims as a citizen of this country have every right to express the feelings ,thoughts and theories which proved the best in the for the welfare of the whole society of India .because this country what we feel as a mother land and have to do a lot as we done a lot in freeing this country with the blood as the choicest one to settle here .
Israel and the land issue of “the promised land “is not under the command of the individuals who does not like to leave a cent land to their neighbor in the wall dispute but it is so easy to suggest to give a land for the people who are powerful in the world and dominated force in white house .
Individual thought in expression against others is the simplest one without expense unlike the dumb
Principal way of universally accepted attitude is that no one do think wrong against other
As an essence of all religions in the world but new crusaders have come to save the world on the material benefit of the own people on the hope of another world .
Hope u think good and do good to others including the muslims in and around of the society at least hope not to harm others for the personal ends
If this too is not possible do not do anything except for himself for the family.
Ayub mohammed



kalyan panda wrote:
I am well aware of facts n figures n issues. Constitution is man made n may be changed. The issue is equality and applicability. Why there is not much commotion with other minorities. What is the history? One more thing, why common civil code would not be applicable to bring all in the ambit of equality.
About the change, can really anyone see changes in a Muslim country? You will find communal stink in my writing but you you will not see the applied truth - why I am saying so. Why Muslims in India rejected intellectuals to represnt them. Only politicians and religious heads are acceptable? I find a very handful of people who are genuinly interested in the upliftment of the community. Mostly negetive approach based on political approch based on religion. Why to blame bad radical Hindus for defence. It was there, it is there, it would be there. That is the fact. Like Nazis are there. Why I am saying this? Even moderate Hindus are becoming prone to adopt some kind of hardline which is leading to more problems in the offing. That is bad for the nation. The growing mistrust is very dangerous. Even secular politicians are taking advantages with hidden vested interests. What I mean that - do not emphasise much on so called Hindutwavadis. Like one more thing. Hindus are majority and backward class or cast is a problem within them. Why Muslims are blutantly interfering in that. Let them fight within themselves to sort out the social menace. There is one more thing - the conversion. That is also a bone of content. Why not freeze them for a while, till the education level rises to some desired level. Why not a mass gathering against Bin Lathe n other terrorist out fits, like it was done against Bush. Why not give the small place to Israelis to live peacefully. In a muslim country, no others get equality- fight against that. Indian Muslims are much much better than others and they can change the fate of the billion plus people worlwide in association with Portugal, Indonesia, Malayasia etc. Why there is not much resent again US. Charity begins at home. We must concentrate on our local issues first- taking consideration of Pakistan, BanglaDesh Afganisthan only for the initial stage. I have no bias or prejudice. I have many many Muslim friends who respects me from their heart. They understand my logic while discussing face to face. And the poor peasants and artisans? They are so good and innocent. In W.Bengal we never thought of these things or differentiate. I am a hindu Brahmin but I take any non-veg food consumed by humen. I wrote strongly to many against the banning of beef. Why to stop the cheap source of protein? Well we should see that the quality of the food is maintained as most of them are deseased after old age. Faiths should be based on love n respect.
Or be an atheist or Charwak. The arrogance is mostly with the minorities everywhere in the world as they think it's their tool to protect themselves. In Inia it is more pronounced as the culture of India and the law and the constitution do not allow that kind of supression. In higher echelion where competition is stiff, where intellectuality brings more confusion, there everything is used. Religion, caste, creed, class... everything. Like Yadavs in Bihar during Lalu's tenure, supressed all n sundry. So minority card should not be applied each n every place which means undue advantage for few- I repeat, it is not benificial to many. See how perfectly the Madrassa in W.Bengal are running. When Azharuddin was cornered, he also tried to use this card to scuttle the proceedings. Cultural authoritianism and humanity with dignity- do you really fins cultural invasion or suppression. Apart from somewhat acceptable untouchabikity, there is not much problem in rural side. We have to cope up with good/bad simulteniously and wait for the evolved society.
regards
panda

ayub mohd wrote:
seems a try to know all in a second without attempting to know the facts and issues in india where the constitution has guarenteed some rights to muslims as a minoirty in a democratic contry ,religion has its own historic neccessity and cultural change in any area of the land irrespective of ownership rights of any perticuler faith in the globe since the progress of civilizations moving forward with
such changes in faiths back to more than 15000 years as it is seen in the europe and the middle east.in india too here too we have a change of faiths from hinduism to buddism,sickism,janism ,besides islam .
the case if u want to understand perfectly ,should leave biases and prejudices irrespective of love of faith and hate of other religions under the authority of the indian constitution which has the basic point and centre of doing acts of every citizen irrespective of the faiths by setting a side of the mejoritarain arrogance and cutural authoritarianism.
interests ,benifits,the feelings ,"my,and mine "are the common phinomina of the commoners in every society.thinking the above level of all such self concerns would make any human corresponds to the higher level of dignity ,humanity,and unversal acceptence otherwise just live like a profiteering machine in the consumeristic routine without touch of souls of the real humanity
ayub mohammed


kalyan panda wrote:
What you are arguing is against your own community. You are also like the same Muslim who understand the people according to own belief. If I say there was no Islamic land in India before 500 years or in the world before 1800 years, then? If I say you have devided India in 1947 to create your own land to live there? What about the state sponsored riots in Pakistan or BanglaDesh? Did Muslim population in India decreased? So what are you complaining about? Are you trying to do harm to the common poor Muslims? Are you a mole of the radical and secular Hindus who wants to use these corrupt menace? Can you explain - what is the political,educational,social,economical etc etc status of people in Pakistan, BanglaDesh(Bengalees who claims to be intellectuals) or any other Arabic Muslim countries? Turkey, Malayasia, Indonesia etc are becoming somewhat exceptions which also you people do not like. What do you actually want? Do not use the Hindutwavadi card for your benefit like the aces. What have you done? Do not be a charlatan and damage the interest of the common, poor, innocent Muslim brothers who are about 15 crores in numbers. Yes, they require education to understand your nefracious intentions and to counter the radicals and to be a good citizen of India.
regards
panda

ayub mohd wrote:


more than 5000 communal riots evidently shown the results of ruling governmnents with marginalisation of muslims in political,educational,social.economical ,and all fields in india after independence with a clear cut out come of doubt on the reliabilities of muslims towards own contry which was the choicest of selection while partition ,not with the compulsion.
religious tensions and killings on the name of hindu-muslim ,if we calculate the two as the same since last 55 years in general and last 17 years .who are the loosers and gainers in political game of elections and formation of governments in central level and other states after playing the card of communal tensions for political power ,would be nothing for muslims but the HINDU FANDAMENTALS WHO plays the dominant role over the other back ward,scheduled castes and tribes .
just decide who is the gaining the power and who is .......loosing everything .
ayyub mohammed

kalyan panda wrote:
What is the applied and practical logic. This way charlatan intetellectuals may create more confusion. The fact is that Muslims are being considered as fanatics though it is not even half truth. So how good Muslims show their goodness rather than defending without result. They must criticise their religious heads. Come out of the dogma and express honestly. Remove some of the objectionable portions from the religious books with consent. Denounce the extremists and ex-communicate them as they are using Islam for their nefracious goal. They should not get burial ground and should be burnt in electric furnace like garbage. A big rally should me made (like against Bush). Criticising radical Hindus should be at lower ebb as it is creating more devidation. No amount of principles work at communal frenziness. Just take the example of Bhiwandi. If this time Hindu backlash starts with the evil fanatical Hindus, then it would be a catastrophe. Wedging more gaps and generating more distrust. I know my suggestions may be taken otherwise.
regards
panda



KALYAN PANDA MUMBAI INDIA 91 9323782617 www.skdubeyfoundation.org
www.bharatudaymission.org
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KALYAN PANDA MUMBAI INDIA 91 9323782617 www.skdubeyfoundation.org
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issuesonline_worldwide] taslima and her supportes come out with concrete proposals for the revolutionThursday, 24 August, 2006 4:52 PM

Writers, poets and authors as a community which alienates from the
general nature of the humans at any place in the world irrespective of
the race ,religion and sex in expressing the ideas ,manipulations and
analyzing the issues related to the society ,state ,religion and
functioning style of the administration where the issue of majority
and minority would never be a part of the whole social fabric the
states concerned .hence there is no exception to taslima nasreen who
stated that the revolution only the society needed despite
reformation in a press- conference .further she told that the islam
has become the history of some centuries old and not applicable to the
present day of advancement of the society as a whole.
As an atheist she has such right to express her ideas, to.manipulate
the society and propose any theory useful to the people of the world
with her dynamism and revolt against the old customary thoughts of the
muslim world in her state Bangladesh especially the issues of women
who treated as productive machines and sex objects.
The people of Bangladesh and some specialized people in India who have
some definite opinions without understanding the roots,causes and the
nature of social fabric of Indian society had found the sensual
pleasure and joyful exchange of pleasure to see the issue passed
against the muslim community with a sense that the cultural
predominance and feeling of superiority of their own against the
muslim community in the world where the muslims are in minority
including in India where the thick line of division of society is
still deepening especially after 1992.
For common conclusion and finding the issue and its roots, relations
with other things and the manipulation of the word "people" have
difference between the two regions within the sense of people in its
meaning for any logical conclusion for the betterment of the society
with a concrete proposal with set of guidelines for the revolution in
India .all the muslims including women would be able to come out
openly to attain the goal the taslima nasreen by joining hands with
others who enjoy the words and dashing spirit of the exiled leader of
the Bangladesh.
The meaning of the development in any society have the different sense
in its own limitations with side effects as a general feature of the
society irrespective of any religion anywhere including in India.
There is no exception to the islam under the context of the revolution
as she told and muslims who will not have any reservation to work
with taslima nasreen and her supporters but all they would welcome
the taslima nasreen and her supporters in India to work for the
revolution as she claimed.
Ayub mohammed

http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/political_ analysts/

IM] roots and causes of defensive terrorism...

since the last ten years the global issues gaining grounds through the
policies of the states in influencing the way of thinking and linking
the issues to the own life styles of every one directly and indirectly
which makes every one to think seriously and led then to the
conclusion within days and in minutes superficially without
considering the historical developments and emerging issues touching
the hearts and lives under the presumptions that they could understand
well about the reasons and findings on their own with the instrumental
little knowledge about the issues and happenings through the states
globally .
The people of America did not find any time to know the functioning
style of dominative dependence on the other states for its existence
of national balance in economy for keeping the people in the sound
sleep through the coercive material life of every individual on the
luxurious serfdom at the cost of any morality, moral values, family
commitments, human relations on human grounds for keeping the skin
alive with the full of desires and ambitions without finding any
logical grounds of their busy-bee like life like a parasite of the
world people who also have such ambitions ,feeling, aspirations and
feeling the value of life with little provisions for a daily life at
least for which they have to do a lot at the cost of their, sweat,
blood and strength to the profiteering human machines linked from the
gross root artisan works to the multinational American companies.
Personally I do not like to call these states linking with any ISM
like capitalism but I prefer to call these states as the parasites of
the world in which such people lives with having such feeling that
they are beyond the commonality of the other humans without looking
at the side of politics of world and the polity of the states
concerned under which they are living, voting and paying the taxes
like a machines to these governments.

But it was the day that shook the world with human storm with the
attack of self- killing with an object of doing something in the heart
of America on 9/11 as the kids also aware who has been brought on the
scene of killing more than three thousand innocent American civilians.

I am not defending here the act whoever committed on that day but I
definitely want all the people of the globe at the reasons and the
conditions which produced such a mind for the destruction in the heart
of America which have been the habit of killing millions of people in
the world in last century just for giving a good life to its citizens
at the cost of other humans with constant engagement of wars in other
countries

The man who was behind the attack in America had a good life sources
in his home land .He can live much more luxurious than any other world
class people like but he did not like to live like other men in the
world class culture. The reason may be beyond the limit of common mind
of the common people who like to follow the beaten track of routine
voice forwarded by the mechanical administrative machines in the
decision making centers America and the other states under the
umbrella for their personal protection and serving the interest of the
similar class people within and out side of the boundaries where they
do not mind the nationality and national interest and slows extra
territorial loyalties.

Here the point is to raise about the only mind behind striking the
might of the world of America under the perfect planning to show the
America and the remaining world that the force would be automatically
emerge from the own society against the evil doings in the absence of
the competitive force against America like Russia in last 50 years by
setting aside the stories and theories manipulated mostly in America
that the act was the greater conspiracy of the Israelites who occupied
the highest decision making centers in America and other countries .

Linking the religion of islam to that mind is another conspiracy
against islam and muslim world because there were millions of muslims
in past and present too to link it up to the religion of islam as it
is 1500 years old and it has seen more powerful rulers in the world
than the MAN

Attaching the Quran to this mind also another biggest mistake and one
more conspiracy against the world and the muslims particularly,
because Quran is not new and do not have such potentiality to create
such minds for the destructions of America. If quran has such power to
create such minds in the world there would be no imagination of the
world map which have multiple religious states and religions now

The mind which has inspired so many youngsters in the world to follow
the way which was shown some lessons to the people of the world and
the ruling elite in the states which have attaching homely issues to
the religion for their further routine benefit like an animals of
living upon the others sweat and strength by creating such conditions
to grow more destructive minds what we have call with privilege as
terror net work which is growing fast even under the hard conditions
imposed by the states

Ayub mohammed
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/political_ analysts/



__._,_.___

Re: [issuesonline_worldwide] Re: Minorities should move to the high courts and supreme courts on vande mataramThursday, 31 August, 2006 4:09 AM

my dear friend shadi
still my subject of the posting shows what way the indian muslims to select .so please go through again .hope u have the idea of bringing out the word fundamentalsts during the period of KARSEVA ,IN 1989.into the usage of the political context in india .i do not mind whatever u call like others who knows only the names without looking the practice in the interaction of other people in the area in daily life where they lives .i respond to those only who drag me into their fixed imagination of the charector by name only without looking the whole -heart within the laxman rekha of the law of the land in such a way with a spirit to pull out the cover of their own face of hate and poisonous pill in the mind through the subject and argument only .
in my personal life have seen good-ness in sharing the tables without touch of the long sign of the AIR with each others with any-discontentment by keeping in mind that could hurt the differentiations from each others including rss cadre
if u all those who want to see the all the muslims singing the song through the proposal of the bjp .go and amend the constitution then u can ask to those who do not follow the law .if not even then those who do not oblige teach them with guns
ayub mohammed
shadikatyal wrote:
Dear Ayub,

I have noticed in your writing that you have even questioned the
Constituion of India . Is it possible that as a minority with all
given rights you still feel being judgemental on others view point.
It isd evident that you niether have faith in Indian Constituion nor
in Judges as you keep repaeting Hindu fundamentalist or generally
Hindus. It is evident that you may have studied with them but have
never tried to feel their feelings either of hate or love.

It is unfortunate that such incidents are carried far far away from
the reality.It is this type of publicity which is used to excite the
illitrates and uneducated masses.When I have tried to impress on you
that I feel same way as others and you that there whould be n o
imposition on any one but it is people like you and Dr. sherwani who
wish to creat some kind of fireworks.

The question which you have eluded so far is Why go to court or
object while this very song was sung by Maulana Azad and even Jinnah.
They had no ojections but now suddenly it has become a question of
religion. Who is more fundamentlist than your and Dr. sherwani
writings.I presume since Mulana Azaad was with Congress some of the
fundamentlist may even call him misled muslim.I presume the present
President is all in same boat.

The problem with India is her failure to have Uniform Code Bill.It
was foolish to keep postponing this one as as years go by there will
be more incidents and more bloodshed. People of all race and
religion live in europe and USA and obey the constituional law as
there is no special laws for minorities or any faith.Every student
has to take Oath of aligiance in US school but no one has come to
object it. You have see3n what France has declared because of
Uniform Law. Lack of such Lasw in India has also created lot of
misunderstanding and rumors of subsidy for Haj etc are common to
excite people.

IO have not seen any writing against terrorism in India and
specially Kashmir but lot about Military injustice which was
circulated by Amensty International which is again financed by Suadi
Arabi. It is not an honest party either.

regards
shadi

--- In issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com, ayub mohammed
wrote:
>
> my dear friend mr lal
> those who does not have analysing capacity of the argument with
point of reason and ground under the indian constitution would
never find the facts and merits of the discussions who present with
endurance
> those who do not have the own mind and thinking power on the
subjects and issues do need more training like a parrot trapped in
the cage of hindu fundamentalism who do not seek the peace then how
would u seek the same from others. suspecian is some kind of mental
disorder of the indivdual who some time asks his own sons to show
their another father and his home would never be in peace .except
carrying the JHANDA .by making his own DHANDA ...hindu
fundamentalism ,,,,,,
> ayub mohammed
>
> Lal Gehi
wrote: THIS SMELLS
LIKE A PAKISTANI STYLE PROPAGANDA AND AGENDA. !!
>
> MR. AYUB,
>
> PEOPLE LIKE YOU HAVE TRIED TO DESTROY THE PEACE OF MUSLIM
COMMUNITY IN UK, USA, AND OTHER COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD, WITH
TERRORIST ACTIVITIES, AND DIVIDING PROPAGANDA, NOW, YOUR EVIL AXE
FALLS ON PEACEFUL SOCIETY OF INDIAN MUSLIMS. !!
>
> " VULTURES OF OWN CULTURE " , ALL IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. !!
>
> Peace. Lal Gehi
>
>
>
> ayub mohammed wrote:
> my dear friend mr.shadi ,
>
> very glad on catching the pulse of the point in arguement .in
democracy ,secularism and guarentee of the minority rights in the
written constittution the state as an instrument of the hindu-
fundamental forces violating the rights of the minorities through
its communal agenda against minorities and perticularly muslims by
imposing conditionalities unneccessarily on religions with a view
to divert the attention from the long pending problems of the
nation and the people who has right to ask the governments for its
redressal as a citizens of our nation under cover of uniting the
different castes people of hinduism against the minorities and
muslims without having the class aspect of the poor by serving
national,multinatio nal companies in dark at the cost of blood of
muslims and minorities like a gang of wild animals in ancient
societies
> if the rss,vhp,bajrandal and vahinies do not form the face like
bjp in political platforms and the bjp do not use the communal
weapons in a manner which does not match the animal like nature and
moving symbols of blots on the face and humanity and indian society
what would make the muslims and minorities to raise the small issue
and negligible error in practicing islam which is purely individual
and individual case in its original nature that would be depended
up on individuals practices and does not need to represent the
whole issue through the muslim leaders and islamic
organisations .the bjp which has change its policy and agenda from
the socialism to communalism that made it to catch more than 80 mp
seats from 2 only .were we not here that time ? why they did not
come before the people with such communal agenda during the nehru-
indira gandhi periods ?who wanted to dig the graves of the
history ? why do they want to get the history to the future .just
for
> seats ,political power ,luxaries, serving the rich ,dividing
the society on communal lines ? who wanted to glorify the past
which have no concerned in the government programmes and policies
to implement ?
> who are communal ? does the muslims have any national party at
national level to commit genocide ?
> every society and the people in real sense needs the progressive
agenda to fasten the social factors for the development of the
society and peace to the humans with the help of scientific
knowledge and development .we all indians no one should have
communal agenda for just power that too bends before the feet of
the rich class like a watchmen at the at the brothel houses where
the whores and brokers have perfect understanding .
> any way mr shadi thank u very much
>
> ayub mohammed
>
> shadikatyal wrote:
> Dear Ayub,
>
> It is very kind of you to tell me that you did not object
reading
> Ramayana and praying in the school. You also admit that you were
> loved and treated as equal.
>
> I think Mr. Ghai and others have explained to all os us that
Vande
> Matrem was sang by all nationalities as a national song. I
presume
> now the objection is beause of BJP.
>
> I agree that nothing should be forced on anyone and there
whlould be
> no compulsion. I have expressed my feelings on that openly. The
> objection in this case by a few people is not the song or
compulsion
> but BJP Govt as it did creat nothiong but mahem by destroying
Babari
> Masjid. The very fact that it is BJP is the concern amnd time
will
> tell when some one takes it to courts.
>
> regarding your remarks about sacrifice by Muslims, no one have
> questioned that. It is also in the history of India that country
was
> divided for the muslims and by the muslims. It is also there in
the
> hostory that Direct Action by Jinnah in 1946 started the blood
bath.
> I have lived through that and well aware what it did to millions
of
> families on both sides and some completely dispeared. We could
have
> learnt somthing from there as the fabric of Indian society was
torn
> apart and instead of trying to heal those wounds we continue to
> spread venom of hate.We should be working against this hate and
> instead of heading such articles as this song aginst Islam, we
could
> have taken simple route of asking why make anything compulsory.
> Dr. sherwani took the negative route and started this hate
compagin.
>
> Regards
> shadi
>
> --- In issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com, ayub mohammed
> wrote:
> >
> > my dear friend
> > plz read again how we interact each other.with the grounds
that
> led us to this point. u only know about the routime through urs
> masters poetry in a manner that does not recognize the other
> thoughts,reasons and multicultural dimension of our home-land
that
> have been laboured by all sections of that period in which
muslims
> were fore runners in sacrifices too .so plz read indian history .
> > i do not bother we the muslims were all daliths,backward
castes
> and some upper castes at that time .the question arises why they
> left the hindu fold is not a question for now bcos when i was
> schooling the prayer was about to read half an hour by the
> management which with full of rss cadre .and i got first prise
in
> answering ramayana in my school as i was only one out of ten
> including all hindus .but i did not feel them like hindus at the
> same time they also treated me like their family member .
> > my argument here is still with a hope to present the point
that
> no one should impose any practice upon those who does not
beleive
> in compulsory type practices any where and in any country.
> > here singing vande mataram is not a problem and it is a matter
> of negligible error by the muslims but conditionality and
coercion
> that not admissible in accordence with the provisions of indian
> constitution
> > my list is filled with more foreigners than the indians .but
> not with the pakistanis .plz check again
> > ayub mohammed
> >
> >
> > shadikatyal
> wrote:
> > Dear Ayub,
> >
> > I have failed to understnd your argument when I have already
> told
> > you that Indian Constituion protects the rights of every
citizen
> > without any class or cast or religious differences but some
how
> that
> > is also not acceptable to you. I will defend anyone rights
when
> such
> > laws are imposed but to start arguments before any reason has
no
> > justification. You also are against the motherland and I wonder
> if
> > you are an Indian citizen because the list of your groups
shows
> more
> > of Pakistan.
> >
> > All I see in your letters is the hate for Hindus whether
> > Fundamentalist or otherwise. May I remind you that bollod in
our
> > viens are from the same Hindus forfathers as 90% of muslim in
> Indian
> > subcontinet were Hindus. I will not go into why or how one
> converted
> > but the very fact that we are related should be enoiugh to
show
> some
> > aspect of respect.
> >
> > Paksitan was created on the same arguments which are
presenting
> and
> > I dont see now that majority of Indians are going to tolaerate
> any
> > kind of disloyality. Yes you can start again the slogan whcih
> was
> > familiar in 40's "Islam is in danger". The only nation which
> this
> > ploy has been used. Why mislead the public. If by any chance
you
> are
> > not Indian than my suggestion is to keep out of Indian Muslims
> > affaires.
> >
> > regards
> > shadi
> >
> > --- In issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com, ayub mohammed
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > my dear friend
> > > i know u come fast to the point which is set on the issue
> that
> > puts on the litmus test to those who have their rights
> guarenteed
> > in the indian constitution .praise of mother land is no wrong
> but
> > making it as an issue is a mistake and those who want to fix
in
> the
> > frame of the hindu fundamental forces as their tatget is the
> > biggest mistake like more than anti national and anti social
> under
> > the cover of police ,cultural police ,,,,in india .so the
> > minorities have the right to challenge such moves by the hindu
> > fandamental forces in the courts as citizens with costs and
> content
> > gurenteed by the law of the land.the state has its moral duty
> to
> > protect all citizens as per its constitution but all such
> forces
> > entered with wrong way with ignrance of laws relating to the
> > elections and keeping the adminstration impartial without
> bias .but
> > the theives enters the rulers uniform for their ends .so there
> is
> > great need to show their nakedness in performing their duties
as
> > > rulers as they failed to act like humans while dealing with
> > other humans in india atleast to say on the ground of the
> criminal
> > record of indian administration on the pages of the social
> charge
> > sheet of the governments they occupy .
> > > ayub mohammed
> > > ayub mohammed
> > >
> > > shadikatyal
> > wrote:
> > > Dear Mr. Ayub,
> > >
> > > I agrtee with you that nation and her welfare comes first
> and
> > thus
> > > Indian consitituion have made provisions to protect all her
> > citizens
> > > and given equal rights hwereas one cannot say of many other
> > nations.
> > >
> > > I have tried to keep the race,religion, creed etc out of
> this as
> > > fiath is a personal thing and any discussion is futile.
> > >
> > > I also donot agree with any compulsion by any government
> which
> > may
> > > creat rift but what I have failed to understand is that this
> > bvery
> > > national song which have been sung by all nationalist of hue
> and
> > > colour have suddenly become a non muslim. Was Maualan Azad.
> a
> > > birlliant theolgin not a muslim when he sang this or Jinnah
> who
> > > later partitioned the nation? Is it sinful to sing in praise
> of
> > your
> > > motherland? Why are we spreading such hate in name of fiath?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Shadi
> > >
> > > --- In issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com, ayub mohammed
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > my dear friend
> > > >
> > > > my views are firm and based up on the historical facts
> > emerging
> > > from the need of the society but my reaction would be
> different
> > in
> > > such a way who present the case and act on the national
> > importance
> > > within the pervive of the constitution and laws of the
> land .my
> > > work and contributions are in perfect way and i keep it go
> on
> > with
> > > specified object of the universalility within the meaning
> of
> > the
> > > welfare of the humans who have the universal nature that
> would
> > > never be limited to the words ... MYSELF,MY CASTE,MY
> RELIGION
> > AND
> > > MY NATION
> > > >
> > > > ayub mohammed
> > > >
> > > > shadikatyal
> > > wrote:
> > > > Dear Mr. Ayub,
> > > >
> > > > India being a nation of all religions and cast and creed
> > have
> > > > provided this clause where one can take the case to the
> > courts.
> > > You
> > > > should start devoting your time and energy on that
> instead
> > of
> > > > writing such articles and stoking the fires of hate.
> > > >
> > > > The Constituion writers were well aware that time may
> come
> > when
> > > some
> > > > ideas may differ and thus minorities will have to be
> > protected.
> > > I
> > > > would hae thought that one would have given credit to
> the
> > > > Constitution instead of bashing the nation and
> majorities.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > shadi
> > > >
> > > > --- In issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com, ayub
> mohammed
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Minorities should move to the high courts and
> supreme
> > > courts
> > > > on vande mataram
> > > > >
> > > > > Clause (1) , Article 29 ,of Indian constitution
> > related
> > > to
> > > > the protection of interests of minorities in India and
> says
> > > > that "any section of the citizens residing in the
> territory
> > of
> > > > India or any part thereof having a distinct language,
> > script,
> > > and
> > > > culture of its own have the right to conserve the
> same ".In
> > > this
> > > > regard those who are under the list of minorities
> including
> > > Indian
> > > > muslims who have their own language, and culture have to
> > > challenge
> > > > the orders of state governments aganst the direct
> > intervention
> > > into
> > > > the minorities affairs and violating the Indian
> > constitution in
> > > the
> > > > high court and supreme court before 7th September.
> > > > > It is the bjp and its forces in all fields which
> are
> > all
> > > > most filled through the silent organizing methods and
> > skills
> > > have
> > > > long history in India to raise the issues that put the
> > > secularists,
> > > > communists and muslims in the witness box of the social
> > check
> > > in
> > > > all houses and parliament with their advanced network
> in
> > ship-
> > > > shaped manner through which they can lead the whole
> society
> > > against
> > > > their opposite forces in every field , under the name
> of
> > > > nationality, and patriotism.
> > > > > The target of the hindu fundamentals is the
> muslims
> > and
> > > > comminists on wider scale in general.if we see their
> > attitiude
> > > and
> > > > practice in its so called hindu spectrul they isolate
> the
> > lower
> > > > casts from the top position of the hindu hierarchy as a
> few
> > and
> > > > selective Brahmins against the largest poor and back
> ward
> > > section
> > > > of the hindu society at the cost of their material
> benefits
> > in
> > > > particular
> > > > > They only release the oral and non beneficial
> issues
> > on
> > > the
> > > > face of the nation under the broader sense of the
> > nationalism
> > > and
> > > > patriotism like nazis for the political power that
> proved
> > > nothing
> > > > in the interest of the poor and lower classes of the
> > society
> > > and
> > > > served only a few of the high and upper caste people
> since
> > last
> > > > fifteen years.
> > > > >
> > > > > In latest controversy they raked up should be
> > challenged
> > > in
> > > > the high courts concerned and the supreme court silently
> > without
> > > > popularizing the evil designs of such forces in the
> > interest of
> > > the
> > > > society and the country with the help of communist
> parties,
> > > secular
> > > > forces and the professional experts in defeating these
> > forces .
> > > > > Ayub mohammed
> > > > > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/political_ analysts/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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Wednesday, September 23, 2009

religious issues in political discussion avoids real political issues in india . is it correct ?Monday, 27 November, 2006 8:48 PM

Dear friends,

We all are aware about the activities of some group members who keeps postings and comments on every issue from the religious angle only avoiding real problems of the classes, regions, down trodden classes of the Indian society which is based on the principle of unity in diversity in general within the purview of the Indian nationality based on the principle of written constitution as a highest book of the Indian laws of the land.

Indian society is consisted some hundreds of castes under the religious umbrella of major religions viz. Christianity, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, islam and Hinduism which is the major religion. At the same time, India has more than two dozens of nationalities based and defined on the basis of language and culture which are very different from each other to form the states for administrative purpose in semi-unitary and semi-federal nature as defined in the Indian constitution.

On the other hand, Indian society is broadly divided into three classes as approved by the majority economists in the world. First and major class is working class engaged in production sector. So that we call it working class engaged in the production whatever they produce for the country. Another class is middle class having some own trades and engaged in service sector and the production sector. Last class is ruling class owning the capital to engage these two classes for the national and international products in wider sense and serving the nation and all the people of the country for its benefits and rewards to these classes by active involvement of all sections including itself on its own.

The state as an important factor of the society having the boundaries and borders protecting the people from the foreign occupations through its personnel selected from all sections of the society on the specified terms and rules applied to all citizen without any discrimination on the salary basis primarily and they have to resume their duties as en employs of the state.

For the purpose of internal administration of the country the state has been divided into three important organs very separately. Of them one is the executive body what we call it government which has to implement the decisions made by the legislative body as a highest body of the country and called it parliament. Lastly the judiciary, which is the body to check the balances and put two bodies in proper manner in the light of the Indian constitution like a watchdog of the constitution having the power to direct both bodies to run the government in smooth way.

The most important sphere of administration is the executive body which has been elected by all citizens of the country through political parties formed on the social needs and demands of the people in order to redress the grievances of the people by elections where every one have the right to contest in the elections on the policies of the parties irrespective of its membership strength. There is no restriction to form any party and there is no limitation of the parties to emerge in India.

Every political party have right to come forward in the elections through its attractive slogans and promises to win the elections and form the government for occupying the political power in the country. So that every party starts to think for gaining the maximum votes for which it has to make promises to the people. Consequently all political parties make the manifestos to attract the masses easily to get the power of the government with simple promises in financial matters due to lack of funds to meet their promises. And very attractive slogans and promises they need to contest the elections to win the political power in the government.

Since 1989 in all parliamentary and all state elections, the religion which has the majority of the votes have started to raise the religious issues centering the religion on non-productive issues to pull the crowds passionately from all sections of the society leaving the real issues and problems of the working class and middle class on the name of construction ram mandir in the place of babri masjid. Raising the demand for common civil code, abolition of the special status to the jammu and Kashmir state, dissolution of the minority statuses to the educational institutes, raising the question of the muslim minorities towards nation and nationality, hundreds of killings of muslims in communal riots, mass killings during the communal riots, filling up of the top posts of the security. Military, law and order departments, judiciary, and important fields of the states through selective members from the anti-muslim minority mind-sets made through the network
of the fundamentalist ideologies. Consequently the social mindset of the people in solving their real and basic problems have been changed towards anti-muslim and minority sentiments on the name of single largest religion of the country very aggressively.

At the same time, some youth from the Kashmir region started mobilization from Kashmir to other parts of the country against the Indian state with a view to retaliate what they have seen the excesses on muslim minorities by the major religious atrocities in the country. In this critical situation the Pakistani people of that side started mobilizing the youth of that country to engage in the holy war against the Indian state through the issue of the Kashmir dispute so as to ensure the whole people of Pakistan that they are fighting against the Indian state for the cause of their national interest. Now we are in the restless bomb explosions and killings against each other cutting down all relations of the human beings who lived together and shared their problems without feeling any differences. This is the reward to the new and present generations of both hindu and muslim religions.

Who is lost and who is gained? NO ONE. BUT THE WORKING CLASS AND MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE LOST AND STILL LOOSING.
ayub mohammed/

http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/political_ analysts/

[Marathahistory] an article on aryan invation theory by mohammed ayyubTuesday, 21 March, 2006 9:41 AM

American Based Heroic Claims On The Name Of Finding Indian History
By
Mohammed Ayub
As a center for many unresolved questions in Indian history, since
last century, due to have political notions, behind the formulations,
propagations, and criticisms on the Aryan Invasion Theory, now in all
circles, including politicians in recent years, is gaining ground on
the strength of the belief and spirituality of the common people, who
unavoidably linked with to the political interests, political groups,
influential and pressure groups in Indian society, without proper
evidences and arguments in its admission and dismissal. For instance,
Subhash Kak, in his article "The Aryans and Ancient History",
discussed with citations against this theory on different grounds,
that there was no significant influx of people into India during this
period (4500 to 800 B.C), fire altars in the excavation of
Archeological survey of India, at the third millennium site of
Kalibangan were discovered, much referred holy river Saraswathi was
dried up around 1900 B.C as the geologists determined and the
discovery of Brahmi script is derived from the script of
Indus-saraswathi age, as these are important in new discoveries and
concluded with "But further research is needed here." "The theory" of
Aryan Invasion since its discovery from the period of British did not
find its impact and net results in any form during and after
independence and even today also on the society, religion state and
philosophy in any way, except its theoretical limitations. The period
about the invasion, origin of the Aryans, nationality of them is also
very controversial, in scholars, historians, and religious circles in
India. Aryans, as nobles in its true meaning in Sanskrit entered into
the scene as early as formation of the Vedic Indian civilization after
the destruction of the Mohanjodaro civilization in various reasons
such as floods, earth quakes and attacks. Some scholars about the
origin of Aryans, says that, they belong to the Germany and Russia and
that there is also no unanimous opinion about the period of influx
nationality, origin, color, motives, culture, habits, gods and the
level of their advancement in their civilization.

Before entering into Saraswathi-Indus river area, which is the primary
and basic region in the Vedic culture, late Balagangadhar Tilak was
believed that the original home land of the Aryans, was the Arctic
region, as he himself was more concerned in leading the people while
freedom struggle. A.C Dass was of opinion that the original home of
the Aryans was the Sapt Sindhu of the Punjab. Swami Dayanand
Saraswathi, also expressed the opinion that they belonged to the
Tibet, some German scholars also forwarded their claim that the Aryans
original home land was their home land, on the growing importance of
the Aryans and their predominant role in Asia and Central Asian
region. Morgan, accordingly, there were from the Siberia. At least,
the original homeland of the Aryans was Saptha Sindhu, The Indus,
Jhalum, Chanab, Ravi Beas, Satlej and Saraswathi, as per the opinion
of A.C Dass, who put forward his view point in his "Rig Vedic" India,
is getting full support in the light of changing equations of the
political ideas, affiliations, interests, discoveries, excavations,
logics and arguments in recent days, as a result, the Sulekha.com the
commercial site, opened the debate on Aryans, through an article
titled, "The Aryan Invasion Theory and Common Man" where in the writer
claimed that "the ancient Indians were responsible for lighting the
lamp of civilization in Persia, China, and Greece - Atal Bihari
Vaajpayee ( I apologize the inexact quote, but that is the gist of his
remarks)"2. There are also different opinions about the invasions
which was only one or two. According to Hoernle, Punjabi, Rajasthani,
Hindi, was belonged to the second group of Aryan Invaders, and western
of linguistic relations with the languages. This theory also not
accepted by many scholars and historians. Some scholars claim that the
Aryans were migrated only as a result of the climate changes in their
homelands and reached the Rig Vedic region on its richness and natural
resourceful potentiality of that period, but largely the invasions
were carried out with fire and sword against original inhabitants and
exterminated them completely. But the Vaishna News editorial in its
article "Hallow earth theory and the Aryan invasion rejected totally
with its claim "One main reason that the theory has been called into
question is that there is no primary evidence, no movements to any
heroes of such invasions have been excavated, no related cemeteries
unearthed, no battle fields in relation to the theory, no foots, and
in short there is nothing in the way of physical evidence. There is
the host of other in-congruencies, but this is the general idea."3.
The Aryan theory of invasion, as an established mindset of some
historians, scholars and archeologists has its own evidences, grounds,
and still its interpretations in the different contexts of the
different school of thoughts of present in society, even though its
strong opponent school of thoughts at present in society, even though
its strong opponent discoveries, logics and inventions, give rise to
some more confrontationist approaches in intellectual, political,
philosophical and social fields of these would not take place in the
broad and widening politico-religious system of the country, where the
faith, belief and confidence, do play the most important role in
establishing these into facts and materials for some time at least.
There are no strong evidences recently discovered by any authority
competent in the field of Indian history through the excavations for
finding such remnants, structures, coins, statues, or anything
supporting the adverse version of the Aryan invasions theory from any
other ancient literature, except forwarding the old questions against
the rationality of this theory during its initial stage with the
support of ambiguous interpretations. Though, the growing thoughts
against this theory if succeeded in finding strong evidences, in its
basic grounds supported by the theory, would give more and more
solutions to many unresolved questions in Indian ancient history,
where the roots of the religion in present democratic setup of the
country is based upon. Dr. David Frawely in his article "Myth of the
Aryan invasion."4 strongly rejected the theory that

"
1. It served to divide India into a northern Aryan, southern Dravidian
culture which were made hostile to each other.
2. It gave the British an excuse in their conquest of India. They
could claim to be doing only what the Aryan ancestors of the Hindus
did previously a millennium ago.
3. It served to make Vedic culture latter than and possibly derived
from Middle Eastern cultures, with the proximity and relationship of
the latter with the Bible and Christianity, this kept the Hindu
religion as a side light to the development of religion and
civilization to the west.
4. It discredited not only the Vedas but the genealogy of the
"Puranas" and their long list of kings before Buddha like Rama,
Krishna, were left without any historical basis. The MahaBharatha
instead of Great War become folklore. In short, it discredited the
most of the Hindu tradition and almost all its ancient nature. It
turned its scriptures and sages into fantasies and exaggerations.
5. It served a social, political and economical purpose of domination
proving the superiority of western culture and religion. It is clearly
established that the Aryan theory of Invasion is as he thinks that its
historical importance and the work behind it simply should be thrown
away on the ground of the discrediting importance of the Hindu
religions, Vedas, Puranas, Maha Bharatha and Hindu tradition without
any work, worth, evidence, labor and historical established facts only
for the sake of credit of the Hindu religion and advancement with
Middle East cultures and Christianity. "

Actually, the Aryan Invasion Theory was come to light by Deen Chandra,
through his article, "Distorted Historical events and discredited
Hindu chronology." "It was not only misguided research but also a
conspiracy to distribute deliberate misinformation that was formulated
on April 10, 1866, in London at a meeting held in Royal Asiatic
Society." "This was to induct the theory of Aryan invasion of India,
so that no Indian may say that English are foreigners."5 As it was
cited in an article "Death of the Aryan Invasion theory" written by
Stephen Knapp. Further he emphasized the need for the written history
of present time for future generations that the no way would leave
them to understand the advancement of the culture and civilization of
this time. He argued the possibility of misunderstanding about the
remnants of present time would lead them to understand the TV
antennas, intended to communicate the Gods of heaven from the homes of
these days and states with special coaches and reclining chairs, this
must surely be the prayer room where he would get the proper
inspiration for living life." From this point of view, the present
reversion of the history merely is on the ground of "Geometry of the
fire altars of India as summarized in early Vedic texts such as
Shatapatha Brahmana and compared it to the early geometry of the
Greece and Mesopotamia. In series of papers he was able to establish
that the Vedic geometry should be dated prior to 1700 BC." The point
of proving the geometry of fire altars which suffered in vedic texts
is needed the comparison of the geometry of Greece and Mesopotamia for
reading the time and age gives clarity that the fire altars were the
prior to 1700 BC. Further, "Remains of the horse have been discovered
in the Harappan reins. A clay model of horse was found in Mohanjodaro.
The new findings from Ukraine show evidence of horse riding as early
as 4000 BC. The notion that Aryans burst into horse riding nomads
sometime after 2000 BC stands totally rejected." Here also calculation
of time and age is based on the remains of the horse, which found in
Ukraine, which shows the horse riding was as early as 4000 BC.
Arguments with comparison from one region to another region about the
usage of the domestic animals, bones, hairs, and the rips certainly
give strength to some assumptions and pre-empts of the scholars and
historians to prove or disprove the point in argument for some time
and period, but would never serve the purpose what they have in mind,
as all the historians and scholars blaming the British for formulation
of the invasion theory of Aryans under their rule in India. The
scholars, historians and supporters of Indian origin of the Aryans,
argue that the Europeans and Iranians migrated from India, as the
Vedas, composed in India and the Hindu religion and Indian society,
structure of present time is based on the Vedas in which they claim
that the Vedas do not refer the invasion of any outsiders including
Aryans. This is the only theory, since last one and half century, some
thousands of discoveries, excavations, arguments, moving around for
finding the origin of the Aryans, and their culture, habits and
intentions, but seems remain incomplete in the absence of the strong
traces and evidences both in favor and dismissal due to having its
base and roots strongly creped in present society and the present form
of Hindu religion. Those who are rejecting the Aryan's Invasion theory
also do not have enough grounds and evidences that the Aryan's origin
is located in India and they are the original habitants of this
country and they gave the country strong traditional culture, ancient
history and great civilization prior to the famous world civilization
of Mesopotamia. Though, on the availability of the traces, remnants,
structures, literature, arguments and evidences, if we get further any
advancement, in establishing the invasion theory of Aryans, it would
be a great contribution to the history of world civilizations where
the value and position of the Indians, historians, and scholars, would
become so dignified that no one would imagine that the Indian ancient
history possessed such potentiality and richness in guiding all other
histories of civilizations in the world and the trend would be
reversed and the entire burden of proof of such greatness of
consciousness and advancement pushed to test fires of the present age
and its present form of rationality and thinking would be questioned.
All the issues related contents and all the roots of the progress of
the Indian civilization would be shined and existed unquestionably for
centuries together with great honor and dignity.

As to form an Idea about the human progress, culture, civilization
from pre-historic age to proto-history passing through the Paleolithic
age, Mesolithic age, Neolithic age, copper and bronze age and iron
age, a large number of remnants in Sindh, Rajasthan, Madhya Bharat,
Orissa, north Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra, Karnataka, Gujarath, Bengal
and Rajasthan found that the men depended upon the natural resources
like fruits, fish and animals for a long centuries together and after
the progress of their thoughts in using the copper, jasper, chart,
blood stone, and bronze as the most common view perhaps only
acceptable by all scholars and historians about the progress and
development of the Indian civilization in the western context and the
Indian context in the absence of strong evidences in the field of
history of research. It was only under the directorship of Sir John
Marshal, who had taken up excavation work from 1921 to 1927 and he
presented the Indus civilization as a greater achievement to the
Indian ancient history, which was existed and destroyed prior to the
Invasion of Aryans. It was broadly proved that the village and
civilization was existed well in advance. Ancient civilizations both
at Lahore and Punjab known as Harappa and Mohanjodaro were discovered.
It was proved that the existence of the village and civilization
before entrance of the Aryans, but the questions are still unresolved
in many aspects. Soon after finding Harappa and Mohanjodaro
civilizations in later excavations, invasions parts of northern India
namely, Rupar in Ambala District Rangpur and lothal in soorashtra and
Kalibangan, where almost similar things of Harappa and Mohanjodaro
excavations got seemed the continuity of the Harappa and Mohanjodaro
civlization in various parts of the country. There are no differences
about the findings of the Mohanjodaro, where in the streets and houses
were built with well plan, houses also built with perfection and
advancement for the atmosphere. Walls were found where the sized
bricks used. The floors and drainage linked to the main channels of
the city. Swimming, baths, wells, were well protected, drainage system
of the Harappan people with the bricks with 9X12 size proves that the
civilization flourished well in advance. Wells were found in that
city, pottery, weapons and seals of the Harappan people used
discovered, shows that they made vassals for domestic use and the
weapons like axes, spears, bows and arrows they used for their use, as
to find strong traces and the things used as the mark for religion in
that civilization.

There were more than 500 seals, figurines, stone images, were
resembling the features of the Gods and Goddesses as a choice of
assumptions they got while presenting the excavation results in all
fields as the civilization should contain. Of them one the seal
contain on which one side nude female figure and a man with sickle
shaped knife in hand another one side a woman seated on the ground
with raised hands and on another seal "the most remarkable figure is
that of three faced deity wearing horned headdress, seated
cross-legged in the posture of yogi and surrounded by the elephant, a
tiger, a buffalo and rhino cars with a deer under the seat." All these
figures on only 2 to 3 seals are enough to give the color of God whose
one incarnation on the name Shiva and another seal, which contain the
figure of dancing girl, whose left hand wore number of bangles, shows
that the women used bangles ornaments, jewelry, bracelets, anklets and
other ornaments as the analysis and calculations of the historians,
archeologists, and scholars interpret that the civilization and its
progress was gauged. Complete presentation and description of the
discoveries were written by Sir John Marshall in a big size 3 volumes
with clarity and perfection. Still there is no question of any
differences among the scholars, archeologists and historians when the
female nude, yogi postured man, with some wild animals manipulated by
Sir John Marshall, the position of God of the Harappan civilization.
As per the texts, reports and articles claiming that they must have
some deities, as a matter of complete shape of the civilization. There
were other nature Gods also worshipped including Pasupathi Shiva,
Mahalinga Shiva, Whal, Pipal, swastika in general applications of the
religion and its role in the Harappan culture and civilization. When
the people of harappan civlization were able to make such advanced
arrangments for the cleaning the cities, elaborate drainage systems
from individual houses to city, dwelling houses with two or three
floor buildings, wells, bathrooms, latrines, thick walls of seven
feet, the roofs, windows at the road side faces, doors, and 30 sq.
feet of ground flour and platform about 360X180 sq. meters,
definitely, they could be able to build worshipping places, structures
and some extra-ordinary level of constructions for their principal or
common deities. It was also estimated that the government and its
nature of functioning in the Harappan civilization but could not be
given to the government in complete shape. It was stated that this
city was build about 5000 years ago. The origin and base of the Aryan
Invasion theory could be found in Rig Veda only, which was stated to
be compiled about 550 BC, according to Dr. J.R Hertal. Acording to
Jacobi, Rig Veda had been written in 3rd millennium BC. Olden Berg was
of opinion that the Vedic literature can be traced earlier than 1000
BC. According to Dr. Winternitz, composition of Rig Veda is probably
about 2000 or 2500 BC, and the end of compilation between 750 and 500
BC. According to A.L Bhasham, Rig Veda was composed between 1500 and
1000 BC and said that "The discovery of the Indus cities, which have
nothing in common with the culture described in Rig Veda and are
evidently pre-Vedic proves that the hymns cannot have been composed
before the end of Harappa. Max Muller in his Gifford lectures on
"physical religion" in 1889, observed that we cannot hope to fix a
terminus a quo. Whether the Vedic hymns were composed in 1000 or 1500
or 2000 or 3000 years BC, no power on earth will ever determine."
About the Aryan invasion theory in their book, Michel Danino and
Sujatha Nahar opined that "The Harappan civilization mysteriously
disappeared in 1900 BC after almost 2000 yearss. It is seen in the
ancient history research, there is still differences and gap in the
setting time within the frame of progress of civilization from the
three different issues, existence and distortion of the Harappan city,
Aryan invasion theory and the Rig Veda and its compilation period and
compilation of time. From the point of existence and destruction of
Harappan civilization there was an advanced civilization before its
death and the formulation of Aryan theory from Rig Veda, is there any
history in the world, once advanced generations and civilizations,
again starts by going back to the learning stage in making
civilization? If so, Indian civilization is very different in its own
kind. Post Harappan excavations, in various parts of northern India,
archeologists found some similar relics of the Harappan remnants which
give the historians, scholars and archeologists an opinion that the
Harappan people lived at different parts. But no progress is found in
this direction, leading to the confusions leaving the vacuum for
presumptions and own notions of the scholars and historians, lack of
sufficient evidence about the existence and the reasons for the
destructions of the Harappan civilization, and the drying up of the
Saraswathi river, composition of Rig Veda, hymns, at the banks of the
Saraswathi river, continuous period of compilation of Rig Veda hymns
for un-notified centuries together and claims of the points of
arguments of the historians and scholars definitely invite the
applications and interpretations of the origin and progress of the
civilization, where in, the origin, growth and features of the state,
the nucleus of the religion, growth, philosophy and progressive or
destructive role of the religion, basic need of the division of labor,
establishing elements of the class, classes, the social division of
the civilization, noble class, intellectual class, clergy section,
middle class sections and ruling class, themselves interlinked
together under dependability of each and every section and class in
the civilization at the period. On the other hand as the tentacles of
Rig Vedic society trying to own the Harappan and Mohanjodaro
civilizations, for grabbing the skills, progress, intelligentsia,
co-ordination among themselves, system of the governance and culture,
the ancient civilization, the question automatically arise in the
minds of scholars, historians, and archeolohists about the
inapplicability of such great architects in their own Rig Vedic
society and civlization, where in the worshippers and enchanters of
Vedic hymns invite Indra, to hear them, with offer of Soma drink for
hearing the praise of Indra that he such worthful at the early
composition of hymns in Rig Veda Book 1. If the post Harappan
civilization's continuity as stated to be found in some other parts of
the northern India, what could be the reasons for that destructions in
the lines of Harappan and Mohanjodaro had to be the important subject
for the scholars, historians and archeological departments for
patching up the ancient history in the time line, as other countries
possession. Aryan theory of invasion itself was produced from the Rig
Veda only, which translated by the Max Muller with great courage and
enthusiasm. Rig Veda itself is the base for the interpretations of
Aryan Invasion theory. Hence Rig Veda again occupied much more
priority and importance in the present context of gaining grounds for
the rejection of Aryan invasion theory. (………..to be continued)


Reference

Total list of references will be given later on.









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[issuesonline_worldwide] Re: do know the pain in wounds before saying something without sense ot itMonday, 23 October, 2006 12:09 AM

i tried to convince u that i am not such person what u are imagining
me and fixing me into your mind, by speaking some personal issues and
behavioural relations ,irrespective of the status of the frineds and
my hindu circle .it was not my meaning to say thati have shared only a
table like a hotel or in marriage party of some body unknowingly
joined them but because i belive that i can share only the table of
dine with such high calibre hindu fundamentalists not on the besis of
such pretty reason but because we are too flexible with each other by
considering the views for practical purposes what we shared in hard
times also .

i ask all those who are objecting me of such postings does not bearing
the pain that i received in this group because i am not a person like
others to pass the time without concentration ,understanding the depth
of the content and leave it out as an 'easy going 'and forgetting the
things and the pain what they receive if they receive atleast in this
group .but i received a lot of woulds and how the pain is i only know .

do u all those who object me and taking an adventage of PLAYING the
role of bigwigs like a gentle men with a vision about the society and
indian culture must have the difference in taking the in put very
differently on the issues and reponses and treatments caused with
other fellows in this group .

how do they know how much pain ia m receiveing from few members of
this group ?

once one person aslo appealed the muslims members to leave this group
because one member is posting intentionally to degrade the muslims and
islam constantly with a view to show himself how much he has the
intelligece in pointing out the issues very communally with full of
hate and hatred .

did i ever say anywhere that that fellow's postings are very
objectionable and targetting the muslims and islam intentionally like
a mercinary ?

when i recieved his response on the such wounding and hurting topics
and issues with his personal observations against muslims and islam
,on my couters ,he simply claimed that he is getting the facts and
muslim attracities caused in india against hindus and indian society
.and more offensively asked me to accept such historical incidents as
a muslim and a person practicing islam which is very cruel religion
and offencive and criminal religion ..

how it was regarded as intelligence and knowledge that the person
contained against muslims and islam

and how it could be such derogatory one ? why so difference ?
if u bear that much of offence against muslims and islam ,this also
should bear against hinduism ....still i am not a MERCINARY AND HATE
IDOL .
LET HIM STOP ALL SUCH CONTENTS AND MANIPULATIONS AGAINST ISLAM AND
MUSLIMS FIRST ,then ask me ,,,
i am waiting for that fellow who sparked this episode ....

ayub mohammed

- In issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com, "shadikatyal"
wrote:
>
>
> Dear Ayub,
>
> It is nice to know that you have such high society friends and have
> sat and eat and studied in RSS schools and got a prize. so
> congratulations but I am lost tht how can an educated and culterued
> man be of so narrow minded and full of hate. Your writings may be
> schoilastic but these are not serving the purpose which may have in
> back of your mind.
> Your friendship with MLA & MP might not be that amicable as you
> claim but I can assure you that anyone who have sat at my dinner
> table has been respected as a human being and not as Hindu Muslim or
> Chritian.You have left the understanding of humanity and love which
> was taught to you by your own faith way behind becaue now all I read
> is hate and more venom.
> Your explaination and talk about knowing others does not show in
> your action despite others also telling you that you are degrading
> yourself and your faith at this time of the year to continue this.
> May Peace be with you at such time of Ramzan
> Shadi
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com, ayub mohammed
> wrote:
> >
> > dear shadi
> > i have already told several things i sees very closely like a
> member of the so many families in and around my life through the
> general growth and development of the education and age with
> perfect clarity of adoptable things and issues in my life and
> rejection of the things with virtue and generesity under
> practiceable circumustances in the hindu society and rss run school
> where i studied well and got a first prize on the ramaya subject at
> the just 6th class ...
> >
> > till now nobody identify me by my religion with my name among
> few thousands of friends . of them some from pretty corporator to
> the members of rajya sabha including mlas and mps who know me well
> that i am a neutralized one living with social aspects in
> uncompromised way ..
> >
> > i have lot of hard core hindu fundam,etalists too shared my
> tables with dignity and respect on disputed issues too from street
> level to wight house level ..
> >
> > i can say that i have seen the hinduism very closely by
> associating with upper caste ,brahmins,vyshyas ,rajputs ,shudra scs
> and stc like a members of their own and i too did not feel any
> difference while dining and dealing with them on their critical
> problems too
> >
> > i am still continuing my life where and how i was started with
> hindu society and friendship with perfect understanding ...i am
> ready to show u how i am still in and around the hindu society with
> friends . because i am a practical man and have a habit to live
> among the living lives UNLIKE A mercinary .......
> > ayub mohammed
> >
> >
> > shadikatyal
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Ayub,
> >
> > I must congratulate you for your research and must admit that
> > you have failed to understnd the basic Hinduism. You are carried
> > away with this hate so far tht you cannot recognise that atleast
> > Hinduism does recognise existance of third sex.One cannot deny
> what
> > God sends to a family and thus existance of such persons or
> diety if
> > you wish to call it does exist.By denying I would think you are
> > denying God and his creation.
> > There are two side of a coin and you can only see only one side
> > because Hate is destroying your intellectual powers.
> >
> > Regards
> > shadi
> >
> > --- In issuesonline_ worldwide@ yahoogroups. com, ayub mohammed
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hindu Deities and the Third
> > Sex
> > > By Amara Das
> Wilhelm